RE: ISO 11179; Basic Semantic Repository
"Hill, Denis" <Hill@isocs.iso.ch>
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:48:00 +0200
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From: "Hill, Denis" <Hill@isocs.iso.ch>
Message-id: <30167220@nc-gat01.iso.ch>
To: bsr!fritz <bsr!fritz@isosun1.iso.ch>, bsr <bsr@utu.premenos.com>,
owner-bsr <owner-bsr@utu.premenos.com>
Cc: bsr <bsr@premenos.com>, cg <cg@cs.umn.edu>,
edi-new <edi-new@tegsun.harvard.edu>, rhw <rhw@sprint.bellcore.com>,
srkb <srkb@cs.umbc.edu>, x3l8-news <x3l8-news@bcr.cc.bellcore.com>,
z3950iw <z3950iw@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Subject: RE: ISO 11179; Basic Semantic Repository
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Fritz,
Just a brief note to correct some of your mis-statements in the attached
note.
I'VE PUT THEM IN CAPITALS IN THE TEXT.
Best wishes,
Denis
----------
>-De: owner-bsr
>-A: bsr!fritz; bsr
>-Cc: bsr; cg; edi-new; rhw; srkb; x3l8-news; z3950iw
>-Objet: ISO 11179; Basic Semantic Repository; Z39.50/STAS
>-Date: 1995 - juillet - 25 20:21
>-
>- Thanks for clarifying the relation of ISO 11179 to the EDI BSR
>-(Basic Semantic Repository). Denis Hill, head of the UN BSR committee,
FIRST OF ALL I'M NOT THE HEAD OF THE UN BSR COMMITTEE.
I'M THE BSR PRODUCTION TEAM PROJECT MANAGER, REPORTING TO
THE BSR MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE WHICH INCLUDES MEMBERS FROM
ISO, UN/EDIFACT, IEC AND CALS.
>-has said things a number of times in email that seem to warn against
>-excessive attention to correctness and detail, so that the BSR effort can
>-move forward fast as a practical matter.
THE KEYWORD HERE IS " EXCESSIVE". THE TASK IS TO BALANCE THE
TIME AND ENERGY COMMITMENT IN SEARCHING FOR THE 100% TOP
DOWN SOLUTION AND THE NEED TO PROVIDE A SOLUTION FOR THE
USER COMMUNITY IN A REALISTIC TIMEFRAME. THIS DOESN'T MEAN
IGNORING ATTENTION TO THE "CORRECT" LEVEL OF DETAIL AND
APPLYING EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT ANALYSIS PROCESSES. IT IS
TRYING TO OVERCOME SOME OF THE BUREAUCRATIC PROCESSES AND WORKING WITHIN THE
CONSTRAINTS OF AVAILABLE RESOURCES,
MAINLY VOLUNTARY, WHICH IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM, TO TRY AND GET
A QUALITY PRODUCT DELIVERED IN A TIMELY MANNER TO MEET THE
USER COMMUNITY NEEDS.
>-This is quite legitimate, but
>-I am reminded that the same "practical orientation" (dispensing with
>-careful analysis of meanings and coordinating of different sources)
>-is what led to the X12 and EDIFACT mess in the first place, and it has
>-also resulted in the somewhat amusing uncoordination within the
>-STAS Scientific and Technology "attribute set" of the Z39.50 standard.
>-(STAS was offered by Terry Winograd at SIGIR-95 as an example of
>-how _not_ to combine data elements). The path between "too-academic"
>-and "too-ad-hoc" is a difficult one; it's important to be practical and
>-fast, but there's nothing practical about finding later that you did
>-things fundamentally wrong.
THAT IS WHY THE BSR WORKSHOP HAS AGREED TO RUN A PRACTICAL PROTOTYPE
PROGRAMME OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS TO "TEST
THE CONCLUSIONS" ARRIVED AT IN THE WORKSHOP ON RULES AND GUIDELINES, TO
ENSURE THAT THEY WILL MEET THE NEEDS, OR TO
UPGRADE THEM IF WE FIND SOMETHING IS MISSING. THAT WAY WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE INITIAL CHOICE WAS
RIGHT, OR BUILD IN THE CHANGES IN A SHORT TIMEFRAME, AND NOT
FALL INTO THE TRAP OF DOING SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG.
THAT IS THE MAIN BENEFIT OF PROTOTYPING VERSUS TRYING TO BE
100% CORRECT UP FRONT, WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE, AS THE WORK TO
CORRECT ERRORS AT THE END IS 10 TIMES MORE COSTLY AND TIME-CONSUMING.
>-If things like ISO 11179 are deemed too fancy
>-and "impractical" for use by the BSR effort, then I'd get worried.
ISO 11179 IS NOT ONLY SEEN A MAJOR COMPONENT OF THE STANDARDS
TOOL KIT FOR THE BSR, BUT AS A KEY COMPONENT OF THAT TOOLKIT.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GETTING SOME OF YOUR INPUT FROM
TO MAKE SOME OF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS, BUT IT WOULD BE GOOD
TO CHECK THEM OUT WITH THOSE DIRECTLY CONCERNED, BEFORE
MAKING INCORRECT STATEMENTS IN AN OPEN FORUM, APPARENTLY
BASED ON HERESAY, LIMITED INFORMATION, OR PERSONAL
INTERPRETATION.
THERE WILL BE A LOT OF REAL INFORMATION APPEARING ON THE BSR SERVER WITHIN
THE NEXT FEW DAYS CONTAINING THE RESULTS OF
THE WORKSHOP AND THE PLANS FOR THE NEAR FUTURE. THIS WILL
BE BASIS ON WHICH PEOPLE ARE BEING ASKED TO COMMENT TO
ENSURE THE SUBJECT IS FULLY REVIEWED PRIOR TO CASTING THINGS
IN CONCRETE.
I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR COMMENTS, ONCE YOU HAVE ALL THE
FACTS.
>-
>- Yours truly, Fritz Lehmann
>-GRANDAI Software, 4282 Sandburg Way, Irvine, CA 92715, U.S.A.
>-Tel:(714)-856-0671 email: fritz@rodin.wustl.edu
>-=============================================================
>-
>-
>-